Let's Move, Sarah Palin, Hypocrisy and Pass the Dessert
 Yet Another Update... As more and more people hear about Ms Palin's snarky attempt to slam First Lady Obama over her efforts to get Americans to think and do something about childhood obesity, we add another voice to the mix. Today the Wall Street Journal, no friend of liberals, came out in an editorial supporting Ms. Obama in this ongoing saga. The Journal admonished the former Alaska Governor not with empty criticism, but with her own words from a 2009 State of the State Address. Sarah Palin, when she was in government said the same thing that Ms. Obama, a private citizen, has been saying for months, that "we can save a lot of [health care] money and a lot of grief by making smarter choices, ending destructive habits and beginning healthy habits in eating and exercise." As each day goes by, it becomes increasingly clear that even if First Lady Michelle Obama was to 100% agree with Sarah Palin on an issue, which in this instance is true, Ms. Palin would disagree. Makes you wonder why, doesn't it? Any thoughts? Here's the link... Update... I recently came across this quote that obesity is... "a national health crisis . . . [that] is driving up healthcare costs and crippling the fabric of our communities." Based on the hysteria that has followed First Lady Michelle Obama from people like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck as she has tried to encourage Americans to exercise, eat better, and lose weight, you might assume this quote had come from the health care loving I'm gonna take away your dessert socialist commie Democrats. You might assume that. And you would be wrong. The above quote came from Steven K. Galson, the last Surgeon General of the administration of Presdent George W. Bush, who considered American obesity a health care epidemic. It seems Michelle Obama sees our obsession with obesity and unhealthy foods just like the Bush Administration did, and yet neither of these charlatans, Beck or Palin found time to be critical of that Administration. Blatant hypocrisy... *************************************************** Enough already! Or as we say in Spanish, Ya basta! I am generally a middle of the road guy when it comes to politics. Sometimes I lean a little right, and sometimes I lean a little left. It seems Sarah Palin, of whom admittedly I am not a fan, once again took a shot at First Lady Michelle Obama. Her criticism was not about any policy issue mind you, she was being critical of Ms. Obama because she has had the audacity to suggest that perhaps, maybe, quizas, we might want to consider cutting back on the amount of sugar we allow our kids to eat and get our them exercising. As study after study continue to show, America has a problem with obesity, and for a lot of people that problem begins in the younger years. Ms. Palin apparently, does not think that encouraging the youth and families of America is something First Lady Obama should be doing. For her, this is a parental rights issue. Parents, in Palin's view, know best, and need no advice, or encouragement from someone like the First Lady. And so, she has been unsparing in her snarky ridicule of a program with a single goal of raising healthier children. Ms. Palin, I have a few questions for you about this. 1. Is anything Michelle Obama has suggested in her Let's Move campaign a bad thing? 2. Were you as critical towards First Lady Laura Bush for suggesting that kids read more? 3. How about First Lady Barbara Bush, was it wrong for her to promote literacy when George the Elder was President? Now I know that Sarah Palin is not coming to my blog anytime soon. I also know that she would have no problem with either of the causes the Bushes supported, even though, using her logic, a parent has a God given right to educate, or not educate his or her children as they see fit. That leads me to believe that the only reason for opposing First Lady Obama's program to encourage healthy eating and exercising habits in children is nothing more than blatant hypocrisy and partisanship. Something we see way too much of from our elected and public leaders. Labels: Barbara Bush, Childhood Obesity, Laura Bush, Let's Move, Michelle Obama, Sarah Palin |
posted by Dave Miller at 8:34 AM
Comments on "Let's Move, Sarah Palin, Hypocrisy and Pass the Dessert"
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Malcolm said ... (5:31 PM) :
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post a commentAs I started reading your post, the first thing that came to my mind was question 2 on your list. One of the things I don't like about Sarah Palin is her hyperpartisanship and her hypocrisy. Remember how she criticized Raum Emanuel for his use of the word "retard", but gave Rush Limbaugh a pass when he said it repeatedly? If Michelle Obama's pet project as First Lady was to promote fishing and hunting, Sarah Palin would find a way to criticize her!
Never Heard of "Ya Basta". The Word I Learned was Bastante. I guess I Never Learned all the Various Ways that can be Said.
Usually When I Hear Criticisms of Michel Obamas Program, it is Due to Mandates, not Suggestions, Advice, Promotions or Encouragements.
Lista, can you cite any mandates that have been forced on parents as a result of this campaign?
Bastante means enough or sufficient.
Ta, basta! translates enough already!
The Mandates are on Schools and Businesses. Republicans are Opposed to all Mandates and Regulations. Since I am a Moderate, I can see that there is such a Thing as Necessary Regulations and Usually such Regulations involve Unfair Mistreatment, yet I'm not sure that this Issue Qualifies.
I don't Know. It's sort of one of those issues that is in the Middle and that I could go either Way on, yet I do Understand where Sarah Palin is Coming From. I Understand her Position and do not Feel that she is Being Critical, just to be Critical.
You Need to Take your Own Advice, Dave, and not Judge People too Harshly because of your Bias. That may Hold True in Relation to how Harshly we Judge Micheal Obama, but it is also True in Relation to how we Judge Sarah Palin.
Lista, there have been no mandates placed on schools and business as a direct result of the Let's Move program.
Now i am sure some schools, or districts, have made a choice to not allow certain foods because they are seen as detrimental to kids. For example when i lived in Los Angeles, the LAUSD banned soda machines from campuses because they felt soda for kids was bad.
But that had nothing to do with any Presidential directive.
Lista, regarding ms. Palin, we've never seen specific criticism of a first lady before from someone on the losing presidential ticket. Never. How else should we understand it? This is the third or fourth time she has criticized, or made a joking snide comment about First Lady Obama on this issue.
How else are we to understand it?
I am sure folks, myself included, would be glad to cut her some slack if she would agree to do some interviews with a few serious media types. Her steadfast refusal to subject herself to that level of scrutiny, something most serious thinkers, political or otherwise all eventually do, at this time, precludes that.
Lista is way off the mark when it comes to Mama Grifter. Mama Grifter calculates everything she says for maximum political (read: DONATIONS) output, which I am quite certain the First Lady does not. Therefore, Mama Grifter deserves to be viewed though a filter that acknowledges her Narcissism and her greed.
Malcolm: Neither Limbaugh nor Emanual deserve a pass at all for using the R-word.... hate speech referring the the mentally disabled. I sure hope Emanuel gets no where in his mayor race. A man so full of hate for a vulnerable segment of the population does not deserve even to be dogcatcher. It's close to being as bad, but not quite as bad, as Emanuel calling people the N-word.
And here's a way to educate yourself about the people Rahm Emanuel hates and disparages: The R-Word.
Hi Dave,
Due to the Business of Christmas, I don't even have the Time to Read the Comments, but I did Read the First Sentence in your Last Comment above and just want to say that if it Really is True that there have been no Mandates, then the Republicans are Over Reacting, yet I'm Going to have to Check with my Husband in Order to Remember the Specifics relating to this.
I happen to Like Sarah Palin and therefore, Naturally am going to Want to Defend her. I wish I had more Time, but it is Christmas and I've Got to Run.
Hi Dave,
I have a item on my blog at the sidebar on this issue. I can't remember where I found it, but someone looked at a State of the State address given by then Gov. Palin in 2000 where she said this:
"Protecting good health is largely a matter of personal responsibility, but government policy can help. Our new Alaska Health Care Commission will recommend changes that affect the well-being of Alaskans far into the future."
SOURCE: Alaska State of the State Address Jan 22, 2000”
Palin has classlessly sniped at the First Lady several times now for saying and suggesting EXACTLY the same thing Palin said when she was governor.
Palin probably didn't count on people taking the time to look up her previous speeches and exposing her rank hypocrisy. And I'm guessing she hasn't the ability to understand how mean-spirited and petty she looks for having attacked Michelle Obama, who is, IMHO, mega times more dignified, intelligent, and classy than Palin could ever dream to be.
I forgot to mention that one time an interviewer asked Mrs. Obama what she thought of Sarah Palin. Mrs. Obama graciously answered that she had never met Palin, therefore, cannot have an opinion of her, but she thought that it was good to have strong women as role models.
Why Palin feels the need to attack Mrs. Obama is a mystery. The First Lady has never uttered an unkind word about Palin.
But again, the First Lady has class; Mrs. Palin, sadly, doesn't.
Amen Shaw...
Nice find on the other article too...
Shaw said: "Mrs. Obama graciously answered that she had never met Palin, therefore, cannot have an opinion of her"
An answer that means that either she is flat-out liar, or is completely oblivious to American affairs.
Check the polls. There are precious few who DON'T have an opinion on the polarizing figure that is Sarah Palin. And few have met her.
Is the First Lady really among the few who don't know who she is... a group that tends to get mocked on 'Jaywalking' and can't ever name the Vice President?
It's not gracious. She's just telling a whopper.
dmarks: I like to think that there's still such a thing as diplomacy these days, something that Palin knows absolutely nothing about. Of course, she could have said what Barbara Bush said recently, " “I sat next to her once, thought she was beautiful, and I think she’s very happy in Alaska.” She then added the zinger: “And I hope she’ll stay there.”
Mrs. O has more class in her little pinky than SP will ever have, should she even attend a finishing school. It's something a person learns at home.
A woman with class (and brains) wouldn't parade her kids around like trophies during a campaign. A woman with class (and sensitivity) would not have forced a pregnant unmarried daughter to appear center stage during said campaign. (And this is not a criticism of the daughter.) Nor would a woman with class (and brains and sensitivity) allow her very untalented daughter to make a fool of herself by appearing on a dance competition.
Palin not only doesn't have class, she probably spells it with one s - but only if she can copy it on the palm of her hand.
dmarks: Just to be clear, I wasn't implying that Rahm Emanuel should have gotten a pass for his use of the word "retard". The reason I mentioned how Sarah Palin gave Rush a pass for doing the same thing that Rahm did is because it's yet another example of her blatant hypocrisy.
Also, to say that Rahm hates and disparages the mentally challenged is a stretch to me. At least he did apologize for his remark. I never heard an apology by Rush (who you curiously didn't accuse of hating and disparaging the mentally challenged).
Although I'm no fan of Mike Huckabee, I do give him credit for coming to the defense of Michelle Obama and her work against childhood obesity. I wonder if Sarah will now accuse Mike of being an elitist who is against freedom.
These are the main points of the mandate:
Under the new Federal mandate, each school will be required to adopt a Wellness Policy that includes:
(1) nutrition guidelines for all foods sold on school campus during the school day;
(2) setting school goals for nutrition education and physical activity;
(3) establishing community participation in creating local wellness policies; and
(4) creating a plan for measuring implementation of these wellness policies.
http://www.wellnessjunction.com/athome/disease_prevention/hlthcamp.htm
It went into effect in July 2006. Guess who was president?
Malcolm said: "Also, to say that Rahm hates and disparages the mentally challenged is a stretch to me."
It's not the least bit of a stretch. It's rather close to how some young people use "Gay" as an insult to non-GBLF people. Even though it is not specifically directed at gays. OR Michael Steel bashing Native Americans by using the "injun" word.
"At least he did apologize for his remark."
Which was a non-apology more of the "sorry you were offended" type, accompanied by him lying about the context and setting.
"I never heard an apology by Rush (who you curiously didn't accuse of hating and disparaging the mentally challenged)."
I find so little to defend about Limbaugh (other than his right to free speech, which gets challenged sometimes by those bringing up the "Fairness doctrine" and other censorship schemes. If you don't like him, turn the dial).
tnlib: "A woman with class (and brains) wouldn't parade her kids around like trophies during a campaign"
Which is basically bashing Palin for being a mother. Kind of sexist, really: men don't get bashed for this. And if she had kept the children home, she would have been bashed for hiding them.
Reminds me of the time you insisted Palin was a racist, but the reason was one of those "just because" things. No evidence, and none was needed.
There are valid reasons to bash Sarah Palin. But much of it goes too far.
" Nor would a woman with class (and brains and sensitivity) allow her very untalented daughter to make a fool of herself by appearing on a dance competition."
Now this one is pretty odd, and falls apart at the least scrutiny. A perfect example of scorched-earth bashing based on nothing more than irrational hatred of Sarah Palin.
The fact is that Bristol Palin is a major, and adult, and has been for two years.. Sarah Palin is in no position to "allow" or "disallow" this adult daughter of hers anything.
And as for "dmarks: I like to think that there's still such a thing as diplomacy these days", there are better ways for Mrs. O to have handled this than by telling the whopper that she had zero opinion on the Vice Presidential candidate that ran on the ticket against her husband. I can think of several myself. Diplomatic and truthful.
A mother is supposed to protect her children - or at least try to, regardless of age - not expose them to redicule or use them for personal gain. I speak as a mother. Even the Tea Party members of my own family were turned off - saying it was in bad taste and showed a lack of class.
How could I possibly "hate" anything that is the butt of so many jokes? No, what I "hate" is the dim-wittedness of her fan club which refuses to see through her empty head.
Every time she opens her mouth her approval rating drops - now down to a low of 30% - and this is among more enlightened Republicans.
But after charging me with "hating" Sarah, I wonder how you ((really)) feel about Michelle since you've been moaning and groaning about this from day one - making a big ado about absolutely nothing. Shall we compare what you perceive to be a major lie on the part of Michelle to Palin's track record. I think not.
dmarks: It's time for you and I to agree to disagree and move on.
We're tired of being nudged.
And eating sugar is hardly the equivalent of being illiterate.
Is this what we've come to? A nation so dumbed down and infantilized by big daddy government that we now need to be told what's good for us and what's not?
Michelle can climb on the roof of the White House and harangue us with a bullhorn for all I care. She's free to speak and I'm free to ignore her. But when it costs taxpayers $5 billion for "Free hungry kids" bill, or whatever it's called, then We the People have a right to voice our opposition.
Our tax dollars are subsidizing school lunches for rich kids.
SF: On this day, I can't help but wonder what Jesus would say to this. " If we are not practicing peace on earth and good will towards men all year long, isn’t it rather foolish to celebrate it for just a day?"
Anway, I wish everyone here a very merry Christmas however you celebrate it or not. And peace and fulfillment for the New Year.
TNlib: It ain't charity when you do it with money coerced from others.
WWJD? Render unto Caeser...
He said nothing about using the power of the state to confiscate taxpayer money and spread it around.
He said to clothe the naked, feed the poor, house the homeless...
... and millions of Americans, religious and secular alike, do this everyday, voluntarily, through churches, charities and private organizations.
I wish you a Merry Christmas as well.
Sorry, the spacing got messed up. The "this" in the first graph refers to what SF said and not to the quote.
SF: "Is this what we've come to? A nation so dumbed down and infantilized by big daddy government that we now need to be told what's good for us and what's not?"
This country hasn't been infantalized by big daddy government. No. This country has become infantilized, IMHO, by believing all the crap that corporations foist on us and that a majority of the population accept with no critical thinking.
Generations of children have had their parents set them up for childhood diabetes because those parents are too lazy or ignorant to know that processed food, sweet cola drinks, and junk food is not a good diet for children.
We now are a nation of people who are stuggling with terrible diseases because we didn't use our heads, but fell hook, line, and sinker for the crap that advertisers for corporations told us would make us happy. Instead those non-nutritional foods made our children sick.
Yeah. In that case the government has to teach its population some smarts, because for the last 30 years it kept silent, and now our kids are paying the price for it.
dmarks,
How on earth do you make a claim that Mrs. Obama is lying? She answsered correctly--as a well-bred woman should--when she said she hadn't met Palin personally, so she did not give an opinion of her. You see that as telling a lie? No. It's having class.
Something Palin doesn't have.
BTW, when you say Palin has no influence over her eldest daughter because she's made her majority, that doesn't make sense to me. I didn't stop listening to my mother when I turned 21. She continued to gently guide me and give her motherly advice, one piece of which would have been to not show up on a televised show and make a fool of myself.
An interesting line that this has followed.
Silverfiddle, your take on Jesus, ala WWJD, is somewhat accurate. Jesus did not expect government to take care of poor folks, widows, elderly, etc.
But he did expect the church, and by extension, congregants, to do so. We see this i his lifestyle and how the early church and the Apostolic Fathers understood his message.
My issue with this has never been with people who do not believe the government should be doing these things, it is with people who claim, incorrectly that our government is, or should be Christian, and not do these things.
As for the overeating issue, obesity is an epidemic here in the US. If we faced another deadly problem that was at an epidemic level, don't you think people would want all of our resources marshaled to combat it?
Say what you want, we will pay for this sooner or later. We can choose to change habits before they cost us trillions in late stage health care bills, or we can say you can do whatever you want, consequences be damned, but we will still be paying for it.
It is like the old FRAM oil filer commercial. You can pay me now, or pay me later.
Finally all, let me say this...
I think Sarah Palin is brilliant and incredibly smart.
I think Eminem is brilliant and incredibly smart.
I don't think either one has the proper smarts to be President.
Shaw asked: "How on earth do you make a claim that Mrs. Obama is lying? She answsered correctly--as a well-bred woman should--when she said she hadn't met Palin personally, so she did not give an opinion of her. You see that as telling a lie? No. It's having class."
AGAIN: anyone who is politically aware has an opinion on Sarah Palin. Whether or not they met her.
So which is true of Mrs. Obama? She has no idea what is going on?
Or that she does, and lied by saying she has no opinion on Palin?
Also, "BTW, when you say Palin has no influence over her eldest daughter because she's made her majority"
Because it is a fact. Sarah Palin is not in a position to prohibit her daughter from doing anything.
Like when you bash Palin for being a woman, or a mother, or for her looks, this is one of things it makes no sense to bash her on.
Dmarks, whether she has an opinion or not is beside the point.
Michelle Obama is being gracious in not offering it, isn't she?
Sometimes that is what we do, we try not to form opinions, so we do not have to offer it.
Is it possible that Ms Obama has a view about the political views of Palin, but, having never met her, has no opinion, or view of her personally?
Like, I am sure she is very nice, but never having met her, I cannot offer an opinion.
Is that possible?
dmarks: A person doesn't automatically become a "mature" adult at age 18 just because they are emancipated. My mother gave me advice, whether I wanted it or not, until the day she died. I fully intend to do likewise with my daughters (early 30s). I may not be able to stop them from doing things that they shouldn't, but it is my responsibility as a parent to try to teach them how to use good judgement - not encourage them.
But Mama Grizz can't teach these things because she is the ultimate narcissistic exhibitionist.
Dave, with all due respect, I nearly choked on my dinner when you said you think Palin is brilliant. I just don't see it. Her husband ran the gov's office and is now behind her PR campaign. He's the mastermind; she's the puppet. And like most puppets, well . . .
I am bored of conversations about Palin, so I'll leave you guys to sort out that issue.
Dave: Glad we agree. I am not one of those, btw, who believes this is or is supposed to be a Christian nation. I do think there are some elements who enjoy playing down the obvious Christianity of many of the founders.
It also seems clear to me by their public language that they purposely made God as generic and inclusive as possible. I think this was wise. It excludes only the stone cold atheist who forecloses even the possibility of some higher power. It also does not mock those who worship God in a more personal way.
Finally, in the spirit of Christmas, I will agree with Shaw that corporations do indeed peddle crap to us, and the propaganda is first class. Politicians of all stripes do the same thing.
Unfortunately, It appears we are doing a poor job of teaching critical thinking. Thinkers on the left and the right can easily point out many examples.
Leslie, anyone who can figure out how to make millions in just a few months, and get a whole lot of folks to think they'd be a good pres, despite quitting as a governor, can't be all that stupid.
It takes someone pretty smart to pull that off.
Sorry if you lost a few cookies and stained the table cloth or placemat...
I just don't think she's the actual brains behind all this. I really think Todd is the mastermind who runs her little empire. I think if it had been left up to her to run the operation, she would have crashed and burned a long time ago. She's simply too shallow minded. Of course greed can make mindless wonders look like mental giants.
Lol, I did have to wipe off the computer screen.
Wow!! This Comment Thread has been Busy Since I was Hear Last and I Feel as if I am really Far Behind, for What I Wrote Prior to Christmas that Never Actually Left My Word Processor is Only a Response to Dave's Comment just Following my Last Comment.
Dave,
My Husband says that Micheal Obama has Absolutely Pushed her Agenda on Schools, so it Really Depends on who you Talk to or Listen to as to what you hear on this Matter. Too much Government Control, though, is the Main Complaint Spoken Repetitively by Republicans.
"regarding ms. Palin, we've never seen specific criticism of a first lady before from someone on the losing presidential ticket. Never."
One interesting Detail Relating to that is that we have Never Before in History had a Woman on a "Losing Presidential Ticket". I don't Know if that has anything to do with it or not, but it's Something to Think about.
Also, I really don't Think it is Right to Complain about how Badly Michael Obama is being Picked on without Considering the Reality that Sarah Palin has been Picked more Severely than any Candidate that I Know of. The Media Picked on her Family and even her Retarded Son, just as Demarks is also Inferring. Once they Made a Really Big Deal about something as Silly as an Outfit that she Purchased. Give me a Break!!
It just so Happens that Sarah Palin is not the Only One Picking on Micheal Obama's Program either. Lots of People are.
You Know, if you Think that Sarah Palin is the Only Politician who has ever Criticized another Politician, you are so very Sadly Mistaken.
I'm not sure what the Specifics relating to "Her steadfast refusal to subject herself to that level of scrutiny" is Based on.
Lista, the fact is Sarah Palin was a candidate, Michelle Obama, not.
I'd be interested to know what other conservatives are being critical of her on this as day by day, we are seeing conservatives come out in support of Ms Obama on this issue.
My point of the post is that Sarah Palin really has gone where no one has before in being critical of a First Lady for her role in advocating what for many is a reasonable position.
The Wall Street Journal, GOP Presidential Candidate Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum, all conservative have voiced support for her in this campaign.
Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour, former head of the national GOP said "As Mrs. Obama takes this campaign nationally, she'll be a catalyst. . . . She'll be a fantastic spokesman, leader."
It is really hard to defend Ms. Palin in this, especially in light of the WSJ article which quotes her own words when she was governor of Alaska basically saying the same thing Ms Obama has said.
Given the speech she gave, why the change in her tone?
I maintain it is a blatant hypocritical switch, as in she was for government encouraging people to eat better before she was against it. Doesn't that make her a flip flopper?
I can't Believe that I Just now Wrote a Page and 1/2 in my Word Processor Relating to all the Comments Above. I'm not Sure what I am going to Do about that.
I wish I Could have Participated more During the Time of the Actual Discussion, but I was quite Frustrated at the Fact that People can be so Busy Slinging Mud at Sarah Palin and Arguing Politics Right Through the Christmas Holiday. I just didn't have the Time.
"Lista, the fact is Sarah Palin was a candidate, Michelle Obama, not."
That doesn't Matter. They Both have a lot of Influence.
In Truth, I'm not So Sure that I Oppose Micheal Obama's Food Program as much as I do some of the Programs that are being Pushed by her Husband. I just Don't Like the Hatred that I have been Sensing Coming from Liberals Towards Sarah Palin.
In Response to Sarah Picking on Michelle Obama. First, she is not the Only One Doing so and Second, she was Picked on Brutally as well, to the Point in which it has Made me Feel Quite Angry.
So Sarah Palin doesn't Agree with Micheal Obama's Politics. Isn't she Allowed to have such an Opinion? That doesn't Make her a Horrible Person, just a Person with an Opinion.
To Answer your Question about Palin's Hypocrisy, to Mandate and to "Recommend" are not the Same Thing and Republicans are Generally Opposed to Regulations and Mandates.
Unfortunately, Dave, your Mention of this has Lead to Sarah Palin Bashing by your Liberal Colleagues that in my Opinion has been Over the Top.
Geraldine Ferraro was the first woman on a losing presidential ticket.
Hi Silverfiddle,
I'm Glad to Know that you are still Hanging Out here. I don't Quite Know what to do about the Page and 1/2 that I Wrote Earlier Today in Relation to all the Above Comments, so Maybe I'll just Start by Posting what I Wrote in Response to the Two of you that are Still Commenting.
My Response to you, Silverfiddle, was "Yeh! Another Republican. Finally." Prior to the First of your Comments, I was Actually Feeling Quite Bad for Dmarks amongst all these Liberals and the Excessiveness of so many of their Programs. I'm not Opposed to some of it in Moderation, yet the Democrats that are in Office Today do not know the Meaning of that Word.
I Like and Agree with what you've said and you have said it so Well. From being Tired of Being Nudged in Relation to Food, to Coerced Charity in the Form of Taxes, to Playing Down the Obvious Christianity of the Founders, to the Fact that Politicians Peddle Crap to us, just as much as Private Corporations do, to the Lack of Critical Thinking on Both Sides of the Isle, you had a Lot of Good Things to say.
I do not Feel that it is Right to Do Away with all Mentions of God in Public Places. That is Taking the Idea of Separation of Church and State Further than what was ever Intended.
I'm Bored with Conversations about Palin as well and Think that it is Quite Sad that People will Continue to Bash her Over the Christmas Season.
Dave,
"Jesus did not expect government to take care of poor folks, widows, elderly, etc. But he did expect the church, and by extension, congregants, to do so."
Yes, and there are Republicans who Feel that this Function should Return to the Churches and to Private Charities. Providing Resources is a Different Issue than Regulating and Mandating.
Thanks, Dave, for Complementing Sarah Palin. You are more Generous and have much more Class than most the Rest of your Liberal Commenters, at least one of which can be Quite Insulting. What you have said about both Sarah Palin and Eminem, though, is sort of the Same Thing that I would Say about President Obama.
Lista, I don't get over to Left Blogistan much anymore, but Dave here at The Mission has an interesting take on things.
I vote republican, but do not consider myself one. I don't belong to the RNC or anything like that.
I am a libertarian with conservative Christian values. That is what drives my voting habits.
Keep fighting the good fight!
Thanks SIlver... I don't consider myself part of the extreme left, even though that is the direction I tend to lean.
Happy New Year's everyone... even those who are more GOP inclined...
Hi Silverfiddle,
Yes, Dave is Perhaps a Little more Moderate and Reasonable than some, as well as more Polite. The Other Liberal that I Respect is BB-Idaho, but he doesn't Actually have a Blog.
I Find Libertarians to be a Little Extreme and Unwilling to Compromise. I Consider myself a Moderate Republican, yet since the Center Line Dividing the Liberals and Conservatives Keeps Moving to the Left, I'm a Little Farther from the Center than I Used to be, not because I have Moved, but because the Center has Moved. Libertarians, though, are too Far Right for me and I Consider them a Little Extreme. Sorry, but that's my Position.
Also, a True Libertarian believes in Total Freedom, Including Freedom from the Pressure to have "Christian Values" Pushed on them. Like it or not, God Gave Man the Freedom to Choose and that Includes the Freedom to Sin and Mistreat One Another. A Lot of Pain has Resulted because of this Freedom and there are Times in which I Actually Feel Angry at God because is it, yet God is God and how can One Argue with the Creator of the Universe.
The Freedom to Choose to Mistreat One Another could also Include the Freedom to not be Taxed and to Choose Selfishly to Ignore the Poor and Keep that which GOD HAS BLESSED US WITH. I Put that is Bold Print because what one has the Ability to Earn is Truly a Gift from God and not just the Result of Human Effort. Human Freedom, even on a Libertarian Level, is not Necessarily Non-Biblical. I just have Trouble Swallowing it because the Selfishness of Man Makes me Sick to my Stomach.
Dave,
I Wonder how Far the Line Between the Right and the Left can Move Left before you will no Longer be on the Left, or are you Going to just Keep Moving Left with the Line until we are a Socialist Country?
I'm Still Thinking about my 1 1/2 Page Comment that is Still in my Word Processor. My Previous Comment was about a Third of it, but there are two more Installments to go, so I'll be Submitting Another Comment in a Minute in Order to Keep Working on the Sharing of it.
Shaw,
To Mandate and to "Recommend" are not the Same Thing. IMHO, Palin is Far more ""Dignified, Intelligent and Classy" than Michelle Obama, in spite the Fact that your Opinion is just the Opposite. Please also Read what I Wrote to Tnlib because I have Found that you have said some of the Same Things that she did and therefore the Same Responses Apply to you.
Tnlib,
"A woman with class (and brains) wouldn't parade her kids around like trophies during a campaign."
You are Guessing someone's Motives, but you do not Know her Motives. It's not as if she is the First Politician that has ever had her Family on the Stag, there is no Evidence that she "Forced" her Pregnant Daughter to do Anything and I Fail to see how Forbidding her Daughter from doing what she wanted in the Entering of a Dance Competition would be Classy.
I Actually Agree Quite Fully with what Dmarks said on this Matter and Arguing about a Person's Approach to Child Rearing has Very Little to do with Politics, as long as her Approach is in no way Abusive, which it is not. Once Again, I Agree Fully with Dmarks that "Like when you bash Palin for being a woman, or a mother, or for her looks, this is one of the things it makes no sense to bash her on."
"or use them for personal gain."
Again, you are Guessing Motives, but you do not Know the Motives of others.
"No, what I 'hate' is the dim-wittedness of her fan club which refuses to see through her empty head."
Are you sure we are not Talking about the Fans of Obama instead?
"But Mama Grizz can't teach these things because she is the ultimate narcissistic exhibitionist."
This Name Calling is just the Sort of Thing that Justifies the Assumption that you Hate Sarah Palin. Don't you think that is a Bit of a Stretch to say that just because you do not Agree with Sarah Palin's Approach to her Daughter in that she did not Forbid Something that her Adult Daughter Decided to do? Such an Accusation is Quite Exaggerated and Shows nothing but Extreme Bias on your Part.
Again, I don't Understand where the Greed Accusation against Sarah Palin Comes From, or for that Matter why you Think Todd Runs the Show.
Lista,
There are as many varieties of libertarianism as there are conservatism or liberalism.
All libertarians agree on a basic premise: My right to swing my fist stops at your nose. I can do what I wish with myself and my property as long as I don't harm others. This makes a true libertarian anti-war except when attacked, and pro-gay rights because it's nobody's business what consenting adults do.
Libertarianism is compatible with belief in God, but like the founders, we believe religion should not hijack government to advance its agenda.
Indeed, a brief review of history shows that nations that mix religion and government end up either killing faith (Europe) or turning it into a freakshow (Middle East).
Unfortunately, Silverfiddle, the Gay Rights Movement Goes Beyond the Preserving of their Rights. They Want their Civil Unions to be Defined as Marriage and that has more to do with Definition than with Rights because all of their Rights can be Protected in the Form of a Civil Union.
They also want the Acceptance of the Validity of their Life Style Taught to Children in Grade School and that is the Point at which their Fist Hits the Face of Parents, because this will Effect the Well Being of their Children who might make better Choices in the Absence of such Influence.
It just so Happens that Homosexuality is not Illegal and No One will be Jailed or Fined for Participating in the Practice, unless there is Statutory Rape or Sexual Harassment.
Their Rights can also be Protected in the Form of Civil Unions without Calling such a Marriage.
Allowing Freedom of Speech on Public Property, Religious or Otherwise, is not the Same as Mixing Religion and Government. By Freedom of Speech, I Mean Things such as Privately Sponsored Nativity Sets and the Like.
Phrases such as "In God We Trust" are also a Part of Our National History and should not be Erased.
And your point is, Lista?
We basically agree. Just as Christians (or Muslims or Druids) may not use the coercive force of government to push their agenda, neither should gays or any other interest group.
That is the fundamental premise of limited government as understood by the founders. What you do is your own business.
Government needs to get back to the business of governing according to the constitution and leave the rest of it to the people.
My Point is that Gays already have Rights and therefore the "Pro-Gay Rights Movement" is Meaningless and Unnecessary. My Point is that Liberals Take their Causes too Far and this Applies to Gay Rights, Pro-Choice, the Separation of Church and State, Taxes, Regulations, Government Programs, Etc., Etc., Etc.
Sometimes Libertarians Take their Causes too Far too, though, but I'll get into that with you on another day.
No Dmarks, Rahm, not the White House.
Should every WH be judged by the language those in key positions use?
Lista, let me put this thread to bed with some thoughts on how far is too far left.
I don't know. Because I think our view of the landscape, in many cases is too incredibly simple.
Let me give you an example.
President Obama is not a Socialist. The Socalists don't claim him, he believes in private property rights, at least as much as a recent SCOTUS decision that spoke of eminent domain rules, and is a believer in personal responsibility.
But all of that aside, I believe the issue rests here for a lot of folks.
Will people, left to the own devices, make good decisions.
I think the answer is yes, and no.
Tale health care for example, or healthy eating habits.
If a parent decides to feed their kid tons of sugar and their kids becomes as big as a butterball turkey at Thanksgiving, does that affect me?
At some levels no, but at others yes. Because when that kid has heart problems and needs health care, where will the parents turn?
Are conservatives who oppose government involvement in health care, willing to say to someone who walks into the ER without insurance, "I am sorry, you have no way of paying for this, we will not treat you, you'll just have to make do?"
I doubt it. But how do they justify forcing me, the hospital administrator, to treat these people?
Is it Socialism to try and fix a system the government is already involved in?
How can people cal president Obama a Socialist when he has just extended the policies of past US Presidents?
Carter bailed out Chrysler and it worked. Obama bailed out GM, and it worked. Hoover bailed out landowners after the great floods last century, and it worked. Every President in the last 60 years has used FEMA, or government aid, to bailout people from the stupid decision to live or build in a tornado zone, hurricane zone, or flood plain.
I believe government is to "establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty."
However we get there, I do not care.
"Let me put this thread to bed with some thoughts on..."
I'm always Hoping that when someone says something like that, what they Really Mean is "Let's Rap this Up" and not "This is the Final Comment." I Still had One More Installment from the Comment that I Wrote in my Word Processor Awhile ago that was 1 1/2 Pages Long and I'm Hoping that you will be Gracious to me and Allow me to Finish.
And as for your Last Comment. I almost Wish it was a New Post, rather than a Final Comment.
"President Obama is not a Socialist."
No, but he has been Moving Our Country in a Socialistic Direction and we are Closer and Closer to Socialism with each New Democratic President. There are Degrees of Socialism. We are Like Frogs in Boiling Water and do not Know when the Water is too Hot.
Here's a Thought about Health Regulations and Insurance. IF a Person Buys Insurance, then he or she can Eat Whatever they want to. I Chuckled as I thought of Something sort of Radical, which is Requiring a Card to be Shown that Proves the Purchase of Health Insurance before being Allowed to Purchase Potato Chips or Cookies.
I Guess this same Proof of Insurance Card could be Shown to a Police Officer in Order to be Released from a Fine Relating to Seat Belts, Bike Helmets and the Like. It's like this. If you Want to be Allowed to Take Responsibility for your Own Life, then Take Responsibility for your Own Life and Buy Insurance.
"How can people call president Obama a Socialist when he has just extended the policies of past US Presidents?"
This can be Called a Movement Towards Socialism, because there Needs to be a Limit to How Much Policies can be Continually Extended and Extended and Extended. All the Republicans have been saying is that Enough is Enough.
Like I Said, though, I wish this was a New Post, rather than a Closing Comment, because there is so much more that Could be Said.
Here's the Last Installment of the Long 1 ½ Page Comment that I Wrote in my Word Processor Awhile ago. I’ll Starting with Jolly Rogers, who is Only the Sixth Comment Down.
Jolly Rogers,
I'm not sure what all is Meant by the Nick Name "Mama Grifter", except that it is an Insult and so we're now Moving in the Direction of Slinging Mud and there's a Lot of Mud that can be Slung at Obama, but I don't like to Get Involved too Excessively with that Level of Dialogue, because I Consider it Counter Productive.
It Concerns me, for Example, that Obama Keeps Choosing People to Work with him who were Once a Part of the American Nazi Party. That's way Worse than anything that can be Said about Sarah Palin or even of any Former President. Let's not get into a Mud Slinging War, though, cause Obama doesn't Fair Well when it Comes to Mud.
Also, I'm Really not Sure what it is that Connects Narcissism and Greed with Sarah Palin.
Everyone should "Calculate everything they say for maximum political output" or Effectiveness. Such is a Positive, not a Negative.
Dmarks,
The R-Word is no Less Offensive than the N-Word. Sorry that I didn't Help you more Initially on this Comment Thread, but I was quite Frustrated at the Fact that People can be so Busy Slinging Mud at Sarah Palin and Arguing Politics Right Through the Christmas Holiday. I just didn't have the Time.
I'm on your Side and Agree with your Arguments, except that I do Like Rush Limbaugh. What has been said about Sarah Palin, though, is Way Over the Top and I have Found this Particular Comment Thread Quite Offensive and Hard to Read.
Skipping Ahead to Malcolm,
"The reason I mentioned how Sarah Palin gave Rush a pass for doing the same thing that Rahm did is because it's yet another example of her blatant hypocrisy."
You are Acting, Malcolm, as if Palin is the Only Politician who has Ever showed Bias in Favor of Candidates in one's own Party. Don't they all do this? So why does this make Sarah Palin any Worse than the Others?
"If we are not practicing peace on earth and good will towards men."
This is not what Divides Democrats and Republicans, Malcolm. What Divides them is whether the "Peace and Good Will", should come from Individuals and Private Donations, or from the Government, just as Silverfiddle has Said very Well, "It ain't charity when you do it with money coerced from others."
Here's a Post that I Wrote that Relates to Government Programs vs. Private Charities.
Just How Small Should Government Be?
Lista said, "You are Acting, Malcolm, as if Palin is the Only Politician who has Ever showed Bias in Favor of Candidates in one's own Party. Don't they all do this? So why does this make Sarah Palin any Worse than the Others?"
I'm not doing anything of the sort Lista. The reason I highlighted Sarah Palin's hypocrisy is because that's the subject of this post.
Also, I didn't type the following:
"If we are not practicing peace on earth and good will towards men."
It was "tnlib" who did.
By the way Lista, because I like to get opposing viewpoints, I invite you stop by and visit my blog on race issues (Diversity Ink). Here is the link:
http://diversityink.blogspot.com/
Hi Malcolm,
We Probably are going to have to Move this Conversation Over to your Blog soon, because I Think Dave is Trying to Wrap Up the Conversation beneath this Post, yet to be Honest with you, Racism is Really not my Favorite Subject. My Opinion on it is very Simple. Racism is Irrational and Stupid, yet People are Often Wrongly Accused of Racism and that is another Matter.
I did Look at your Most Resent Post, but want to Think about it a Little before Responding.
As to Sarah Palin, if she Shows Bias, just as Every Other Politician on the Planet, I do not Consider this a Significant enough Piece of Dirt to be Concerned about. Sorry about Mis-Attributing a Quote to you.